hindahoney:

magnetothemagnificent:

Sorry it took me so long to answer, I am swamped with asks haha

Yes, it’s possible to be Jewish and a different race, as Judaism isn’t a race, but an ethnoreligion, or even better described as a tribal nation.

Now, first I’m going to push back on you equating European with Ashkenazi. Ashkenazi is a specific term referring to Jews whose ancestors settled in the Rhine valley after the Roman expulsion from Judea. Many of these Jews eventually migrated eastward to Eastern Europe and Westward to British Isles, while others stayed in the Rhine valley region. But not all Jews whose ancestors settled in Europe are Ashkenazi.

There are Sephardi Jews, obviously, whose ancestors settled in the Iberian peninsula following the Roman expulsion, and then later migrated to North Africa, Northwestern Europe, Eastern Europe, and West Asia following the Spanish and Portugese inquistions.

There are also Italki Jews in Italy and Romaniote Jews in Greece, all of which are unique communities of Jews whose ancestors settled in Europe and who are not Ashkenazi.

Additionally, not all Ashkenazi Jews are racialized as white. Ashkenazi does not refer to your race, but rather who your ancestors are and/or what community traditions you follow. There are Ashkenazi Jews of every race.

The reason why lots of what-you-perceive-as-white Jews don’t identify as white is because Judaism precedes the modern constructs of race (yes, race is a construct, not an immutable science) and because whiteness is highly subjective and fluid, just as non-whiteness is. Because race is a construct, which race a person is perceived as varies by where they are and by which people they are around.

Jewish “whiteness” is also conditional- and as Jews we don’t like to leave ourselves vulnerable to shifting statuses. Jewish “white-passing-ness” can also be a tool of violence, either by denying the racial reality of antisemitism, or by being ‘proof’ that Jews are shape-shifting inflitrators of the white race. Hitler’s Final Solution was total extermination precisely because he feared many Jews would pass as white and spread their Jewish blood among the Aryans, and so the total extermination of Jews was deemed as necessary, like one would exterminate a parasite.

This of course doesn’t mean that no Jew has ever had access to the privilege afforded to whiteness. In the post-Holocaust era, many Jews have tried to successfully assimilate into whiteness to access even a little bit of privilege in order to protect themselves. I’m not going to lie and say that if I was pulled over at a traffic stop, my lighter complexion wouldn’t give me more grace at the hands of the police officers than someone with darker skin would. Because yes, sometimes I am racialized as white and therefore access the privilege of whiteness.

But that doesn’t mean I don’t feel deeply uncomfortable when I’m filling out a form and the only options for race and even ethnicity are “white”, “black”, “hispanic”, and “asian”. Because while at the end of the day I’ll check “white”, it’s only because I don’t want to be accused of fraud (even though Middle Eastern or just Jewish would fit me better, but that’s not an option). But that’s just me. Some Jews are fine calling themselves “white Jews”. Two Jews three opinions and all.

Someone introduced me to the phrase “racialized white/black/etc” a few years ago, and I think it makes much more sense. Because race is entirely dependent on perception and how others racialize you. I am not White, but sometimes I am racialized as white. Other times, I am racialized as “not-quite-white-but-we-don’t-know-how-to-categorize-you-so-we’re-just-going-to-try-and-guess-and-ask-wildly-invasive-questions”.

At the end of the day, call Jews what they want to be called, and don’t try and push labels on us. If a Jew doesn’t want to be called white, don’t call them white. Because race, ethnicity, religion, and all that is complicated, and Judaism predates all of that, so naturally Jews are going to have mixed feelings about it all.

This conversation gets brought up often. whenever it does, I feel a mix of annoyance and frustration that non-Jews are expressing their opinions about how they view Jews and completely ignoring the Jews who express differently, and the fact it’s not their place to decide.

It’s important to point out that the view of Jews being white is a recent one, and an American one. Jews are often racialized very different in much of the rest of the world, including Europe. In the US, Jews were classified as yellow Eur-Asians under Jim Crow and red-lined out of the white areas. This is why you still see large Jewish communities right next to other minority communities. We weren’t allowed to go anywhere else.

While the US views race on a black-white binary, much of the rest of the world has operated off of an east-west binary, and Jews are classified as eastern. The black-white binary is incomplete and it finds so much trouble pigeonholing Jews because we aren’t from here, and we have existed long before that racial binary. We don’t fit any of their molds.

The arguing for Jews being white is that some of us are able to pass as white and thus benefit from that privilege. Chiefly, that’s not how race is decided. There are plenty of white passing minorities that in different circumstances could benefit from that privilege but that doesn’t change the fact they do not have the white experience, the view of them as white is conditional and contingent upon hiding key identifiers, nor does it change their ancestry.

It also ignores the experiences of many Jews who have grown up facing racialized antisemitism because they have been identified as non-white. Jews tend to have features that can be clocked as being Jewish, and we can’t just change our features like dark eyes, dark curly hair, and larger/hooked noses, features that I know many Jews were ruthlessly bullied and attacked for. Jews don’t even have to be seen to face discrimination. A survey was recently published that found 1 in 4 hiring managers say they’re less likely to hire someone if they think they’re Jewish. The way they can tell is often by our names. Many jews aren’t given anglicized versions of their names, such as Yirmiyahu, Eliyahu, Elisheva, Tzipporah, etc. Our last names, too, have become identifiers, such as Heschel, Goldberg, etc. Universities like Harvard introduced quotas to limit the number of Jewish and Asian people they accepted into their schools. It’s not surprising to see campuses being hotbed for antisemitic hate crimes.

I wish we could put this annoying question to rest. Whatever you want to identify us as, it isn’t white and hasn’t been for thousands of years. Its only within the last 50 or so years that people started considering SOME Jews white.

magnetothemagnificent:

Sorry it took me so long to answer, I am swamped with asks haha

Yes, it’s possible to be Jewish and a different race, as Judaism isn’t a race, but an ethnoreligion, or even better described as a tribal nation.

Now, first I’m going to push back on you equating European with Ashkenazi. Ashkenazi is a specific term referring to Jews whose ancestors settled in the Rhine valley after the Roman expulsion from Judea. Many of these Jews eventually migrated eastward to Eastern Europe and Westward to British Isles, while others stayed in the Rhine valley region. But not all Jews whose ancestors settled in Europe are Ashkenazi.

There are Sephardi Jews, obviously, whose ancestors settled in the Iberian peninsula following the Roman expulsion, and then later migrated to North Africa, Northwestern Europe, Eastern Europe, and West Asia following the Spanish and Portugese inquistions.

There are also Italki Jews in Italy and Romaniote Jews in Greece, all of which are unique communities of Jews whose ancestors settled in Europe and who are not Ashkenazi.

Additionally, not all Ashkenazi Jews are racialized as white. Ashkenazi does not refer to your race, but rather who your ancestors are and/or what community traditions you follow. There are Ashkenazi Jews of every race.

The reason why lots of what-you-perceive-as-white Jews don’t identify as white is because Judaism precedes the modern constructs of race (yes, race is a construct, not an immutable science) and because whiteness is highly subjective and fluid, just as non-whiteness is. Because race is a construct, which race a person is perceived as varies by where they are and by which people they are around.

Jewish “whiteness” is also conditional- and as Jews we don’t like to leave ourselves vulnerable to shifting statuses. Jewish “white-passing-ness” can also be a tool of violence, either by denying the racial reality of antisemitism, or by being ‘proof’ that Jews are shape-shifting inflitrators of the white race. Hitler’s Final Solution was total extermination precisely because he feared many Jews would pass as white and spread their Jewish blood among the Aryans, and so the total extermination of Jews was deemed as necessary, like one would exterminate a parasite.

This of course doesn’t mean that no Jew has ever had access to the privilege afforded to whiteness. In the post-Holocaust era, many Jews have tried to successfully assimilate into whiteness to access even a little bit of privilege in order to protect themselves. I’m not going to lie and say that if I was pulled over at a traffic stop, my lighter complexion wouldn’t give me more grace at the hands of the police officers than someone with darker skin would. Because yes, sometimes I am racialized as white and therefore access the privilege of whiteness.

But that doesn’t mean I don’t feel deeply uncomfortable when I’m filling out a form and the only options for race and even ethnicity are “white”, “black”, “hispanic”, and “asian”. Because while at the end of the day I’ll check “white”, it’s only because I don’t want to be accused of fraud (even though Middle Eastern or just Jewish would fit me better, but that’s not an option). But that’s just me. Some Jews are fine calling themselves “white Jews”. Two Jews three opinions and all.

Someone introduced me to the phrase “racialized white/black/etc” a few years ago, and I think it makes much more sense. Because race is entirely dependent on perception and how others racialize you. I am not White, but sometimes I am racialized as white. Other times, I am racialized as “not-quite-white-but-we-don’t-know-how-to-categorize-you-so-we’re-just-going-to-try-and-guess-and-ask-wildly-invasive-questions”.

At the end of the day, call Jews what they want to be called, and don’t try and push labels on us. If a Jew doesn’t want to be called white, don’t call them white. Because race, ethnicity, religion, and all that is complicated, and Judaism predates all of that, so naturally Jews are going to have mixed feelings about it all.